EQ4800-L9 capacity mismatch: 41.9 kWh capacity but measured ~37 kWh

[Beno62]

It's not just me. The person who started this thread has exactly the same issue as me to the kWh. Coincidence, I think not. I'm guessing every Australian customer is being deceived by Fox. I don't think it's an accident.

I have exactly those batteries and according to the app, website and API have hit 100% on a number of occasions when solar production was under estimated and house load over estimated.

When you hit 100% are you discharging and charging 41.93kwh or 37.7kwh?

[evilbunny]

When you hit 100% are you discharging and charging 41.93kwh or 37.7kwh?

Neither, the battery only reports in percent and I haven't been game enough to drop to 0%, waiting for next prolonged outage.

[Beno62]

When you hit 100% are you discharging and charging 41.93kwh or 37.7kwh?

Neither, the battery only reports in percent and I haven't been game enough to drop to 0%, waiting for next prolonged outage.

You can read you input and output power a number of different ways. Anyway, you too will find you do not have access to the advertised 41.93kwh. Fox ESS has scammed Australia. They have a decent product. I think was not wise to scam us all.

[MaterialBarracuda48]

Yeah. So in UK they tell customers you can use 37.7kwh of your 41.93. in Australia they tell you you can use 41.93 of 41.93 but really only give you 37.7 usable but then they recommend 10% min soc so Aus end up being left with 33.5kwh. it's going to take a few months but Fox ESS are going to get one of those big boy fines. The government don't like fraud on their own rebate schemes.

Correct, you can download the Global & Aus Datasheets for the EQ4800 batteries, and the Aus document clearly states 100% DoD and a useable 41.93kWh in max config.

From what you and the OP are seeing, it seems the 10% is taken off the table as a hardware reserved amount, leaving 37.74kWh as the actual useable.

Then due to the software used, it seems it cannot accept a SoC of less than 10% as the minimum, so you loose yet more.
I make the maths to be 33.96kWh of REAL useable capacity. Which is close to your 33.50kWh input, and could be down to the AC/DC conversion losses/efficiency.

It will be interesting if you can confirm the working maths, and from observations.


On a side note (quest!) have you tried to abandon the FoxCloud2.0 App, and set values for MinSoc in the website?
https://www.foxesscloud.com/v2/login
Can you set in top right, Quick Settings 0% for Battery Reserve Capacity & System Min Soc?

[Beno62]

Yeah. So in UK they tell customers you can use 37.7kwh of your 41.93. in Australia they tell you you can use 41.93 of 41.93 but really only give you 37.7 usable but then they recommend 10% min soc so Aus end up being left with 33.5kwh. it's going to take a few months but Fox ESS are going to get one of those big boy fines. The government don't like fraud on their own rebate schemes.

Correct, you can download the Global & Aus Datasheets for the EQ4800 batteries, and the Aus document clearly states 100% DoD and a useable 41.93kWh in max config.

From what you and the OP are seeing, it seems the 10% is taken off the table as a hardware reserved amount, leaving 37.74kWh as the actual useable.

Then due to the software used, it seems it cannot accept a SoC of less than 10% as the minimum, so you loose yet more.
I make the maths to be 33.96kWh of REAL useable capacity. Which is close to your 33.50kWh input, and could be down to the AC/DC conversion losses/efficiency.

It will be interesting if you can confirm the working maths, and from observations.


On a side note (quest!) have you tried to abandon the FoxCloud2.0 App, and set values for MinSoc in the website?
https://www.foxesscloud.com/v2/login
Can you set in top right, Quick Settings 0% for Battery Reserve Capacity & System Min Soc?

In Australia we can set 0% min soc. If you do you will have 37.7kwh usable capacity. Not the advertised usable 41.93kwh. it's Fox ess fraud of the government rebate system here in Australia. Fox ess recommends that we set min soc to 10% to ensure our warranty is not voided, that's where 33.5kwh comes in.

[MaterialBarracuda48]

In Australia we can set 0% min soc. If you do you will have 37.7kwh usable capacity. Not the advertised usable 41.93kwh. it's Fox ess fraud of the government rebate system here in Australia. Fox ess recommends that we set min soc to 10% to ensure our warranty is not voided, that's where 33.5kwh comes in.

So yeah, seems they lock 10% off, and demand you lock a futher 10% off to maintain a warranty.
Please come back and post in the future once this passes through your governing body, love to hear the outcome of this.

[StarryTissue]

Hi Beno82, I put in a ticket to Fox and will wait to hear back before escalating.

I wanted to do this earlier however didnt want them coming back and saying home assistant was the issue. With the new fox app, I can see all the data in 5 minute increments.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks for letting me know you have the same issue.

[Beno62]

Hi Beno82, I put in a ticket to Fox and will wait to hear back before escalating.

I wanted to do this earlier however didnt want them coming back and saying home assistant was the issue. With the new fox app, I can see all the data in 5 minute increments.

I'll keep you updated. Thanks for letting me know you have the same issue.

Ok, let me know how you go. I've just gone direct to ACCC. I know normally ACCC want you to try to resolve an issue directly with the supplier before escalation but in this instance is large scale fraud of the federal battery rebate scheme, so it's going to be a really big one.

[evilbunny]

You can read you input and output power a number of different ways. Anyway, you too will find you do not have access to the advertised 41.93kwh. Fox ESS has scammed Australia. They have a decent product. I think was not wise to scam us all.

Neither your original post or the first post mentions house load in those figures.

I only have a 5kW inverter and the base house load is ~0.6kW and peaks at over 4kW during the 6pm to 8pm export window due to the microwave or air con or stove etc.

We're lucky to export 7kWh then, even though 10kWh have come from the battery.

[Beno62]

You can read you input and output power a number of different ways. Anyway, you too will find you do not have access to the advertised 41.93kwh. Fox ESS has scammed Australia. They have a decent product. I think was not wise to scam us all.

Neither your original post or the first post mentions house load in those figures.

I only have a 5kW inverter and the base house load is ~0.6kW and peaks at over 4kW during the 6pm to 8pm export window due to the microwave or air con or stove etc.

We're lucky to export 7kWh then, even though 10kWh have come from the battery.

What someone's house loads are is not relevant to the issue I have identified. I understand what you are saying but it's not relevant. The EQ4800 is giving Australian users access to 90% of the rated capacity when we and the government are told that 100% of the rated capacity is usable.

[evilbunny]

Claimed to have 41.93kwh usable storage but in reality it has 37.7kwh if you ran it down to zero %. 33.5kwh if you run it down to 10% soc.

How are you working that out?

[Beno62]

Claimed to have 41.93kwh usable storage but in reality it has 37.7kwh if you ran it down to zero %. 33.5kwh if you run it down to 10% soc.

How are you working that out?

By how much charging energy you can get into the battery. I'm not working it out. It is measured by several devices that all read the same within <0.5% discrepancy. And considering there are losses in the charging process the real energy stored is actually somewhat lower than the energy put in, that I have mentioned. Also, you could set fixed output to 15kw continuously for one hour and you will see 15kw is outputting continuously but your battery drops by over 10% more than the expected 36% (close to 40%). The battery simply does not have the advertised usable capacity.

[evilbunny]

It is measured by several devices that all read the same within <0.5% discrepancy.

What are those devices? and what are they reporting? and what are they measuring? (which wires etc)

And considering there are losses in the charging process the real energy stored is actually somewhat lower than the energy put in

You also need to factor in the round trip efficiency, which decreases as you near full charge.

You also need to factor in the self discharge rate.

Also, you could set fixed output to 15kw continuously for one hour and you will see 15kw is outputting continuously but your battery drops by over 10% more than the expected 36% (close to 40%).

What's the house load then?

[StarryTissue]

By how much charging energy you can get into the battery. I'm not working it out. It is measured by several devices that all read the same within <0.5% discrepancy. And considering there are losses in the charging process the real energy stored is actually somewhat lower than the energy put in, that I have mentioned. Also, you could set fixed output to 15kw continuously for one hour and you will see 15kw is outputting continuously but your battery drops by over 10% more than the expected 36% (close to 40%). The battery simply does not have the advertised usable capacity.

This is a recent example, all measurements taken from the Fox ESS app:

• Discharged at 14.7kw for one hour, and the battery went from 91% to 51%.
• This 40% drop represents a 16.8kwh drop in battery reserve for a 41.9kwh battery
• However it should have only dropped by 35% or 14.7kwh (give or take maybe 0.3kwh due to other factors).

[evilbunny]

This is a recent example, all measurements taken from the Fox ESS app:

• Discharged at 14.7kw for one hour, and the battery went from 91% to 51%.
• This 40% drop represents a 16.8kwh drop in battery reserve for a 41.9kwh battery
• However it should have only dropped by 35% or 14.7kwh (give or take maybe 0.3kwh due to other factors).

Someone in this thread posted that their battery suddenly jumped to 100% on consecutive days.

With all the other problems people are having with recent forced firmware updates, maybe this is another?

[StarryTissue]

Someone in this thread posted that their battery suddenly jumped to 100% on consecutive days.

With all the other problems people are having with recent forced firmware updates, maybe this is another?

This has been a consistent issue I have noticed since installation about 4 months ago.

[evilbunny]

This has been a consistent issue I have noticed since installation about 4 months ago.

Have you asked Fox tech support about this?

Yes I'm aware how difficult it is to contact them.

[MaterialBarracuda48]

I wanted to do this earlier however didnt want them coming back and saying home assistant was the issue. With the new fox app, I can see all the data in 5 minute increments.

You are right about Fox, they don't like any data that comes out of Modbus. I had an agent say they won't take what that has to say.

I wonder if you have the data to show how much charge has been added to your battery to go from 10% to 100% in the Fox app, does it match @Beno62's value of 33.5kWh approximately?

My calculations put it close to 34kWh for a full charge.

[StarryTissue]

Have you asked Fox tech support about this?

Yes I'm aware how difficult it is to contact them.

Yes I called but they were dismissive and put the discrepencies down to heat loss. When i pushed back and said the discrepency was too high they asked me to lodge a ticket which I have done. Will update when I hear from them.

[evilbunny]

Yes I called but they were dismissive and put the discrepencies down to heat loss. When i pushed back and said the discrepency was too high they asked me to lodge a ticket which I have done. Will update when I hear from them.

If it's been more than a day it's unlikely you will, so maybe the ACCC will get you a better outcome.

[Beno62]

Someone in this thread posted that their battery suddenly jumped to 100% on consecutive days.

With all the other problems people are having with recent forced firmware updates, maybe this is another?

This has been a consistent issue I have noticed since installation about 4 months ago.

Now that we can update the firmware ourselves as end users I've done the updates a few days ago and at this point I believe the revisions have fixed the issue. It looks like I have got 10% capacity back straight away. They must have had a sketchy version that was locking off and hiding 10% capacity about 5 months ago when mine was last updated shortly after it was commissioned. Something that never should have happened.
Try updating firmware!

[StarryTissue]

What version is your firmware? And do you have a guide how to update? Otherwise I will ask Fox to update the firmware.

Thanks foe the update.

[Beno62]

What version is your firmware? And do you have a guide how to update? Otherwise I will ask Fox to update the firmware.

Thanks foe the update.

I skipped a bunch of versions to get it up to date. It was a fair way behind. First update your Fox ess 2.0 phone app to the latest version. Once you have done that go into your phone app, click devices, click on your inverter, them right under the image of an inverter will be your serial number click on the serial number, then it will show the updates available for each device.

[MaterialBarracuda48]

[StarryTissue]

Thanks for the helpful tips both! Will give it a go